I have had more students recently saying things like, well, that was weird.
And I'm like, you're not wrong.
You're so not wrong.
Um, it is.
And I have some questions for you now.
Hey, and welcome back to the smarter literacy podcast from a Send smarter intervention where we simplify effective literacy instructions so every student gets what they need, and every educator gets the breath a little easier.
I'm Lindsey.
And I'm Corey.
And today, we're going behind the scenes into something teachers and parents often ask us.
What standardized assessments do you use with students? We'll share more about why those assessments matter, what tools we use, and how they connect to the literacy processing triangle.
What we love, and sometimes don't love about each one.
Alright.
Let's start from the beginning.
Corey, what are the assessments that we use when students come into the clinic? Yes.
So this is a really great question.
And it really depends on what they're looking for.
So we have a comprehensive evaluation, which goes really deep into each of the literacy skills.
Our comprehensive evaluation is similar to what a student would receive if they were going through an IEP eligibility evaluation at school, but we're primarily focused on the academic side of all of that.
Or if they're coming to us because they want a literacy intervention and we're going to need to support them in that way, we're gonna start with the key information that we need to dive into our instruction.
Okay.
So let's see if family is coming in for literacy intervention.
What would that process look like? Yeah.
So we always start with the Wyatt four.
So the Wexler individualized achievement test, it's a great measure because it's really comprehensive, and it gives us a baseline across the literacy processing triangle.
So it's gonna help us to understand that phonological processing or the sound structure.
It's gonna help us understand the orthographic processing, how they're doing with their sight words, and that visual structure of the language and word reading, and it will also give us a really good view of that semantics piece as well.
So understanding the meaning structure of the language, thinking about vocabulary and listening comprehension and that kind of thing.
Right.
So it really it really hits it all.
So it targets analogy through phonemic awareness task, the orthography, through decoding, and orthographic fluency, and semantics through vocabulary reading and listening comprehensions.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And it also can give us some writing information too, which is a really big win.
So one of the things that I absolutely love about the Y four is that it doesn't just tell us where students are at with each of those different pieces of the literacy processing triangle, but it also helps us understand where they're at compared to peers.
So it helps us to understand how big is the gap, how long my intervention take really is a good measure just for us to be able to see, alright, how far behind are we really? Right.
So now we kinda talked about what we like about it.
So let's talk maybe about those frustrations, right, that we experience when we do give this test.
And for me, I know that you you have to be intentional about how you pace it out, right, because it is a long test.
It is very long.
And that can be frustrating for you and your student, um, especially with those younger students Right? Because they just don't have maybe that attention span to sit there and take this really long test.
I also know, for me, when I'm giving the test, there's a lot of materials and even kind of like rules for, like, example, the discontinue rules, that I'm constantly having to keep track of and remember and check back on.
So that makes it feel like it's almost even longer just because I'm constantly having to be like, am I doing this right? You know? Absolutely.
No.
And I think that's it's both a blessing and a curse of that particular assessment is that because it's so comprehensive, you're measuring so many different skills.
And because you're measuring so many different skills, they're all measured differently.
Right? So when you're looking at phonemic proficiency, for example, you are not only measuring.
Did they get that answer right? Yes or no? But also did they do it in less than two seconds? So you're trying to administer the assessment while then also listening to the months and thinking about, was that the right response, and was it given to me fast enough? And so just things like that, and that's just one particular assessment, right, whereas others, you might be doing something, even something as simple as a word list, And some of them, it's like, okay.
We'll do this one if they are in kindergarten or first grade.
Do this one.
If they're in second grade or above, it has different time limits for each of the different grades.
And so, yeah, you have to be super intentional.
And it definitely takes time to get familiar and comfortable with that assessment.
I will say once you've done it enough, it does come easier, but that being said, there's a lot to manage, especially with kids and and trying to keep them engaged and entertained as well as they're going through it.
Right.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So what other assessments might you give if someone was coming in for a more comprehensive assessment? Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one of the other assessments that we give is the c top too.
So this is a comprehensive test of phonological processing.
And I say these numbers because they have different versions.
Right? So we're always trying to stay up to date with the most recent or up to date version.
So as soon as a new one comes out, we'll do the new one.
But At this point, the C top two, and this is our deep dive into phonological skills.
So I love that in addition to the phonological skills where we'll look at things like blending, you know, their ability to blend sounds into words and pull words into individual sounds and manipulate sounds, we're also getting a measure of phonological memory, which helps us understand the length of words that students could likely decode.
So for example, we're having them repeat digits back to us.
And if they can give us four digits back, then I assume that they would be able to hold on to four sounds in a word.
And so that's helpful to know, alright, how long of a chunk are they actually able to hold on to? Which is super helpful.
And sometimes that phonological memory also gives us a little peek into their working memory, which gives us an idea of how well are they gonna hold on to all the rules that we're gonna be teaching them throughout a structured literacy process.
Right.
And all of that is really important information.
It's really great information.
And it definitely helps you in your instruction.
So, yeah, we love it for pinpointing those weaknesses, but we kinda hate that students sometimes get fatigued by their repetition.
Right? Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think the c top especially the phonological awareness of it definitely has a tendency to feel like you're doing I think there's usually around 30 trials, and so it can just feel like, oh my gosh.
There's there's a lot here.
I think that being said, one of the things that I do like is that it does have a rapid naming component, which usually only takes about thirty seconds to a minute, um, for students.
And that can be good to see how well is their orthographic processing looking like.
So I really like that it's giving me both sides of that literacy processing triangle, but you're right.
It can be a little repetitive, especially at the younger ages.
I don't know.
It can just be long.
Yes.
Okay.
So beyond the Wyatt MSC tab, What are other measures that we are giving? Yeah.
So another assessment that we often use is the tower or the tower y people call them different things, but the test of word reading efficiency, and I love it because it's a super quick measure.
So it's forty five seconds for real word reading and then forty five seconds for nonsense word reading, which makes it an incredibly fast efficient way to measure word recognition fluency.
So love that.
This is great for progress monitoring too, especially because there are four different versions you can give throughout the year, but it can be limited because it's just time wordless.
Right? Exactly.
So you do wanna make sure that if you have students who have needs outside of just that word recognition piece that you are starting to look at some of those other skills as well.
So it's a good measure to get a quick view of where we're out with word recognition ability, and I like that it has that fluency component, but you're absolutely right.
It's a little bit limited in the sense of if you have students who have language comprehension needs, probably not the best bet for them.
Right.
So if we wanted to go into something that was going to be better for those particular students that have more of those language comprehension difficulties.
We might wanna look at something that is more of a connected text measure.
So one of the things that we often use is the gort, which is great for seeing both fluency.
So it looks at rate and accuracy.
As well as comprehension in connected text, and it's super sensitive.
So if you're trying to diagnose a specific reading deficit, it can be really helpful in identifying those.
Yeah.
But I will say what I don't love about it is that it sometimes penalizes thoughtful readers who slow down the process, and it has outdated or kind of like these odd stories that are maybe not so culturally sensitive and can feel a little weird as you're listening to kids right through them.
I have had more students recently saying things like, well, that was weird.
And I'm like, you're not wrong.
You're so not wrong.
Um, it is.
And I have some questions for you now.
To follow along, uh, to that odd story.
And so, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I think there are some things in there that we are getting a little bit of a cringe to.
It's definitely, um, some of the stories are a little outdated, I would say.
So I think that's something for sure to be aware of.
Hopefully, in the next version that's coming out, they will fix some of that.
It's a big fingers crossed on that.
I know they're doing a normative update right now.
And so fingers crossed, we'll see what comes of that.
You know, another thing that I would say on the court is that they do have have a lot of questions on the comprehension side that are very specific to adjectives or describing words throughout the story that I kind of feel like that's maybe not getting into the heart of comprehension.
Right? Like, can they pull a very specific detail about, you know, the tree in the story was tall or specifically where it was at? You know, a lot of the things the kids are kind of Right.
Making inferences or guesses and it just even saying like, okay, you know, the corn ears were fat.
Like, what describe the corn? And you're like, the kids are like, what ears fat? That ears? Like, I don't know.
Why are you asking me that? I'm like, I don't know.
It is kind of an odd question to ask.
Right.
Yes.
And Honestly, there's sometimes where my students give me an answer, and I see, like, how they got the answer.
It's not the correct answer, but I see if you read it from, like, this kind of perspective or you were thinking kind of in this way.
I'm like, oh, that does make sense.
But I can't give you that because, uh, it's not what the answer is.
Yeah.
And I know that there's been a couple of questions too, even just things where, you know, they are trying to be grammatically correct in the way that they ask the question, and so it will be like, with what did the child use or something like that, you know, and you're like, okay, what did the child use, or what did the child say? Let's make this sound.
Like, I'm speaking to you, not this super grammatically correct way of asking this, but also, you know, sometimes I'll say what was the main idea of the story.
And what they're really looking for was what was the moral or the lesson, like getting into that analysis level of comprehension, but they're asking for main idea.
And main idea is actually more often what kids are giving us.
I think the particular story is about a bird, and it's trying to get a drink.
Yep.
And it can't, you know, it can't get the drink.
And so the kids are saying, oh, it's about a bird that couldn't get water.
And I'm like, you're absolutely right.
That is the main idea of the story, but what the answer key says is oh, it's about problem solving and survival and all of this.
I'm like, well, that would be a moral or a lesson, but not the main idea.
So I'm like, I don't blame you for saying that.
So anyway, all that to say, we love the gorp, but but also, there are some things Yes.
What other assessments do you use for a deeper dive? Yeah.
So another one that we use is the C Tony.
So it is the comprehensive test of nonverbal intelligence.
And I have to say, at first, I didn't know if I loved or hated this particular assessment because honestly, I didn't fully get it.
But now that I've been using it for a lot longer, so I've been using it for several years at this point, I actually can say that I really love it.
It has an analogy section, a category section, and a sequencing section.
And while it's nonverbal, because it's all pictures that the students can point to, it's helping me see the type of connections that students are making, and it gives me a really good view of they're organizing information, which really supports reading and listening comprehension.
So again, you know, how are they organizing? How are they sequencing, making inferences and predictions? But it's not requiring vocabulary vocabulary knowledge necessarily to demonstrate an ability here.
So it just gives me a really good view into, how are they thinking about concepts? And how are they looking at this? Are they doing it at a surface level? Are they able to take that a step deeper into kind of multi steps and things like that.
And so I think it just gives me a good view of of how are they doing when they're thinking about information.
Yeah.
I I love that it can help look at reasoning without the same language demands, but we don't want to misinterpret interpret it as a measure of overall ability.
Yeah.
It's great.
Yeah.
I think for that one, particularly, because it's a test of nonverbal intelligence, sometimes it's gonna look that as a cognitive assessment.
And so I think it's just one of those things where we don't necessarily want to look at it as a cognitive assessment, but again, it it can be really helpful in looking at some of those reasoning skills.
And so that's just a good one to see how our how our kids processing.
And I think another test that gets insight into how our kids processing and how are they kind of thinking about things is the CEFI.
So this is a comprehensive executive function inventory, which we use, again, as a measure of executive functioning.
Now, This one's tricky because it's a parent or self rating scale.
So you always have to take that with a grain of salt because it's just like I remember back in the day we'd have the buzzfeed quizzes and things like that.
Right? And depending on what day you took it, you'd get a totally different answer.
Right? It was just like, well, how am I feeling right now today? And I think sometimes when I'm looking at the results of these, I'm like, what mood were you in when you were taking this? And especially when I'm looking at parent rating versus teacher rating versus student rating.
Sometimes I'm like, um, wow, we are all over the place here, and I'm trying to make sense of what this is actually telling me, but I do think it can be a helpful measure or tool to kinda think about what are some strengths and what are maybe some bigger areas of need? Right.
So are there any other standardized assessments you give for a deeper dive? Yeah.
So one other one that we use is the Biery VMI.
So it's visual motor integration, and I actually really like this assessment to see how students are generally responding to the task.
So I'm looking more at things like, are they perfectionists? Are they planning before they act are they thinking about the details or the rules that I gave? So for example, one of the rules is that you can't use an eraser.
Do they remember that, or do they immediately go to flip that over? And so it can give some really helpful information in terms of, you know, what are students seeing and then what are they producing on paper? So one of the things I like to think about with the literacy processing triangle is with that orthographic side, you need to be able to take visual symbols in But also for writing, you need to be able to produce visual symbols as well.
So you actually need to be able to write the letter or write the symbol down as well.
And so the visual motor integration assessment can help us to see well How well are they taking in visual information and then responding back to that? Now all that being said, I'm not an occupational therapist, so I'm not looking at it from a perspective of, you know, fine motor control necessarily.
However, if a student does have difficulty with some of that, I can start to think about, alright, how much of this is executive functioning? How much of this is potentially a visual or a motor issue? Do we need to be making a referral here Do we need to look at vision? Do we have an acuity issue where they're actually not seeing things appropriately and therefore can't write it down? Or do they not have that fine motor control? In which case, we also need to be thinking about accommodations like Hey, if we're asking them to copy from the board and they have a really hard time with that, that's exactly what we're asking them to do is to take in visual information and to reproduce it in their own paper.
And some students just do not have that underlying ability.
So that's just a helpful one to look at as well.
So we definitely do not wanna rely on just one tool.
We use the Wyatt frequently, but the others are definitely helpful in zooming in on specific parts of that literacy processing triangle.
But I know when we see students for intervention, we just don't give the Wyatt four, we also bring in our curriculum based assessments to know exactly which letter patterns, for example, the students need and to be able to monitor progress on specific skills.
Exactly.
And that's the piece that's gonna make it really practical.
So, of course, these standardized assessments do a really good job of helping us understand how big is the gap, how far behind peers are, our students, what are the general skill buckets that we need to be looking at, but then we want to start looking at more of those curriculum based assessments or those more specific skill assessments that would start to look at, okay, which specific patterns? If we know that our student is struggling with word recognition, what are the patterns that they don't know? And that's not something that's often coming up in these type of assessments so often.
But that's what really will drive our instruction.
So we do wanna make sure that once we have this big picture overview, we start drilling down to figure out, okay.
Well, now that I know, for example, that my student needs word recognition support, Which patterns or where am I starting that word recognition support? Or okay.
Now that I know that they need language comprehension, their reading comprehension or listening comprehension is not strong.
Well, which specific skills? Is it direct recall? Is it main idea? Is it imprinting? Is it that high level analysis? We need to start drilling down into which skills.
Right.
So there you have it.
The tests we often use in our setting, it's not saying that you have to use every single one of these tests.
Right? But here are some examples of different standardized assessments you can use to kinda get that bigger picture of your students.
And then also to kinda really narrow it down, what do they need? Absolutely.
And we've tried and used other assessments like you mentioned in the past as well, and they all have things that we love about them and honestly, probably some things that we hate or just, like, at least a little bit.
But again, you know, the publishers didn't ask us for our opinions.
So here we are just sharing what we think about these different pieces and using what we can to provide the most effective and efficient instruction.
For our students.
Thank you for listening, and we'd love to hear what assessment tools are you using in your setting? Thanks for listening to this episode of a smarter literacy podcast.
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