Hi, and welcome to the Smarter Literacy Podcast from Ascend Smarter Intervention, where our mission is to simplify effective literacy instruction to make teaching literacy easier and more accessible for everyone. I'm your host, Lindsay, and in today's episode, I'm sitting down with Rosemary, a licensed educator and literacy interventionist whose journey looks a little different for most. From homeschooling our son to working with microschools and online learners, Rosemary has built a thriving literacy practice rooted in structured literacy and flexibility.
You'll hear how Rosemary overcame the challenge of bringing the science of reading online, why she believes structured literacy is essential for every learner, and what keeps her inspired as she watches her students light up and when reading finally clicks.
So get ready, and let's settle in to have a fun conversation with Rosemary.
We are so excited for this episode. Today, we're gonna be diving into Rosemary's journey in literacy instruction intervention space, starting with the challenges that you faced in the beginning, what instruction looks like now, and some helpful strategies you can take with you into your own literacy journey. So welcome, Rosemary.
Hi, Lindsay. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Thank you for joining us. We are so excited to be talking with you today.
So to kick things off, can you actually tell us just a little bit about yourself and your work, the setting you're working in, the students you serve, etc?
Okay. Well, I am a licensed educator in the states of New Jersey and in Florida for elementary, and I have a varied background in education.
So I have training in reading through my educational therapy training, And then of course, and then some dedicated reading training as well as far as reading intervention.
I also have training in doing cognitive skills enhancement and executive function skills. And I have worked in public schools, but only for a short stint many moons ago. And since then, I raised my son, who's seventeen now, and he was always homeschooled from day one. So that took pretty much all my time.
But I did do some tutoring on the side during that time span, and I also did work in the homeschool community. So currently, the majority of my students are in the homeschool community, and I see a lot of them online. And I also work at a micro school, which is a two day a week school for homeschoolers. And I work there one morning a week providing reading groups and using your curriculum, which has been like a lifesaver for that.
And I also have a few school students who are in charter school, public school that I see in person, locally.
And for everyone, I am providing mostly reading intervention services using Delivering Smarter Intervention. And for a few kiddos, we do a composition writing program using Institute for Excellence in Writing.
That's amazing. I love, yeah, your journey looks very different than I think most educators, and I love that because so many people think of the education journey just being in a public or private school, right? So to hear how it can look different. It's so great and I think our listeners are going to love hearing your story.
Oh my goodness. So okay, So jumping off that, let's talk about the beginning of your journey. And so we know that starting off in this field has its challenges. So when you first got started in the literacy instruction intervention sphere, what were some of the initial challenges that you faced?
I would say the biggest challenge I faced was because I was doing more and more students online, was how do I provide this service most effectively online and also have it be a program that's grounded in the science of reading, which we know is of course a huge buzzword nowadays, but it's been important for many decades now, right? How to provide this intervention online, and then even be able to flex it sometimes with in person if the need would arise with the same student. For example, I did have some students that I was seeing at our local public library, some homeschoolers, but every now and then we'd need to meet online because let's say mom who was a busy mom of four kids, something happened and couldn't make it in person to the library, I wanted to be able to have something that I can use in both capacities.
So that was a little hurdle to get over. And then what happened was the library we were using, someone crashed into it. Oh gosh. It's been closed for over a year now. So, we had to resort to being online because I didn't have any other, I don't have a dedicated office space, except for my house.
Right.
Yeah.
Having Delivering Smarter Intervention was just like such a beautiful option. I did have some other programs that I used, but like I said, they were not flexible as far as being able to provide them online. And what I said before about the science of reading, I wanted something that was structured literacy. So, that included all different components. Because there's some other great programs out there that do mostly just, let's say, the phonological awareness or like just the phonics based piece, but then doesn't go into the more the syntax and the comprehension and the vocabulary and all aspects that we know that work beautifully together to really enhance a student's learning.
Yeah, absolutely. And I have to agree with you thinking of kind of like that, the ability to be online and in person is so important. I'm specifically thinking back to the pandemic, and I was a literacy school literacy teacher in a public school setting. And at that point, I had not been introduced to DSI. And I just remember all of a sudden, one day we're teaching in the schools, and all of a sudden, okay, all learning's online. And I had to figure out how to make what I was using work online.
And, I mean, of course, we were all kind of caught unaware. I think a lot of educators, you know, private or public or whatever, would say the same thing that, yeah, it was a real hurdle to have to kind of switch gears.
Definitely for, you know and we're seeing more and more educators like yourself, Rosemary, who are kind of more in the private practice realm. And yeah, there is a lot of online learning now. And I think that is something that all educators, especially since the pandemic, were always aware of. How can we make sure that what we're using is flexible enough that if I did need to go to online learning again, this could work for my kids? So I think that's a really great point that you make there. And we're just so happy that DSI is what's working for you.
It is. It is working. And, you know, interestingly, my students who are I work with two kiddos who are in a local charter school, and they don't want online. They want in person, those parents, and which is fine, but there have been a couple of times where the student had maybe a threat of lice and I didn't go.
So Right. I said, no problem. You know, we can go online and I can pick up exactly where we are. So it's so helpful.
Yay. Yes. Yeah. And the other part is the assessments that are included in DSI, because it just brings everything together, and it really helps you to target.
Because there are, of course, as we know, a lot of great assessments out there, and I have a lot of tools in my toolbox, but to be able to use this along with some others perhaps to really target the intervention.
And for example, today, started with a student this year who's at the foundations level, and so we just started doing the midpoint assessment. And it's really exciting to be able to have that and monitor her progress because like one of your wonderful leaders, Corey, you know, she loves the data, and I'm like, Oh, I love the data too.
We know it's really important, you know, because measurement is everything. Qualitative, of course, is very important as well. But having the quantitative, it's just beautiful.
I couldn't agree more. I mean, definitely we do love data here and to inform our instruction especially when we are content creators definitely, but also even just working with our own students to see that progress and to measure it and to see are we growing? If we're not growing, why? Can I deep dive into this a little bit more? And certainly to use the assessments with other formal types of assessment that we use the why here. So completely understandable. And we as educators need that to know that what we're doing is working.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think it's great to share, I mean, I write reports and I hand them to the parents so they can see exactly what that lens is showing us so they can better understand as well. Because a lot of parents don't and I understand. Like if a let's say if I had an issue with a different topic, something electrical, you know, I would not understand it at all, and you'd have to break it down for me. And so this way I can show parents the data and let them know exactly what we're working on. And we do those different assessments, show them what's improving and what we still need to target. It's beautiful.
Yeah, absolutely. We love being able to share with the parents that we're working with too, where their child's starting, where we are currently and where we want to be.
Absolutely.
So Rosemarie, I think you kind of you started to talk about this, but if you could tell us what a typical day looks like for you, of break down your day, what does that look like?
Well, depends on the day.
My schedule is different every day. It is pretty packed right now. So for example, today I had students online all morning back to back and everybody was a student who's using DSI.
I give myself a little opening on Wednesday afternoons, which is when we're recording this. That was on purpose in my schedule in case I needed to do something, like take my son to the orthodontist or meet with you. But typically my days are almost back to back with a few little pockets of time, mainly, like I said, using DSI. And then Monday mornings I spent at the micro school.
So I have a good friend of mine who's been also a home schooling, a veteran home schooling mom and a few years ago, she started this micro school and it's, you know, it's grown, you know, fluctuated over the years and last year, she found herself in a position where she wanted someone to come in and take over her reading groups. It's a small little school. There's at this point, I want to say like maybe sixteen, seventeen students. Okay.
But a lot of her students need reading intervention.
And she's got quite a few kiddos who have diagnoses such as dyslexia or attention focus issues, which we know of course affects and everything like comorbid issues. And she actually contacted me a few years ago for suggestions and recommendations on what to do with them. And of course, I didn't have DSI back then, so I made a recommendation.
But when I came into the school, I thought, okay, well what's the best way that we can do this? So we're divided into four different reading groups on Monday morning. I use the 5CCL literacy materials for that. And it's been so perfect for them. So I did assessments with them using a different instrument that is just more convenient, shall I say, to do with them. Then based on that, we place them in groups. And I've been doing the literature stories, Yeah, have all components of structured literacy.
And the kids really enjoy it, and I can target a lot of skills. We just have small groups of maybe three or four children, so it's just a dream for a teacher to be able to work in that capacity and monitor their growth and use different little techniques with them using the five CCL materials and they're they're loving it. A lot of these kids. Yeah, they're just enjoying it.
I have some I have like a little kid one day who was like, oh, like reading class is over already. And he was so sad. He was really enjoying. Yeah.
And so it's been really helpful in helping the parents for me to pinpoint to them a little bit more where the kids might need a little extra work. And it just works perfectly, and I'm very, very grateful to have it.
That's amazing. Oh my gosh. I really love to hear that. I think you're right. That small three to four group is such a dream, and I have used the Literature Connections excuse me and I specifically used them over the summer with some of my students and they are so much fun and the kids do really get into them and they get super interested and I'm so glad you're using them. That makes me so Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Love it too and it just works perfectly. It's just a perfect little system. So, we're going to transition some of the groups. We're going to read some novels, some literature that are not included in five CCL but I was determined to do one of these little literature units first to give them some good foundational skills that then we can transfer over when we read a novel and use another novel study guide. And so I told the parents to buy the novels, and they did.
And I said, well, maybe in October we'll start them, but we're not going to start them in October because I said I'm committed to finishing the literacy units, are slow going because I'm only there once a week.
Right.
And have groups for thirty five minutes, let's say. So we're going to finish those up because I know it's giving them so many useful foundational tools, and I've already seen them start to make progress in some of the skills, so I'm really excited. And then after the novels, we'll come back to another unit. I'm excited.
Yeah. That's a great plan. Mean, that's awesome. And it actually works well into my next question, which is, and again, I think you've already been touching on it, but what's working well for you currently both maybe at the school but also your own practice?
I would say overall is being able to monitor the growth with all of the different skills that are presented in a DSI lesson and being able to tell parents already, like this one little girl that I mentioned that I'm doing the midpoint assessment with her, Even before the midpoint assessment, I just sent out a little, you know, hey, this is what Anna's doing really well, and I've seen progress in this. All the skill reinforcement in the lessons just have really helped to solidify some difficult areas for her, and I'm seeing growth already. She is a three day a week student online, so the parents are dedicated.
We're doing about forty five minute sessions, so that's perfect that I can have all that time with her. So, it's just really working well. Actually, everything is working really well. I I I have to say that that's my answer and then in person, like I just told you, those little litter, those five CCL units are are working perfectly for them.
So, everything is working really, really well.
That's amazing. We love when things are working well. I mean, my next question is, are there any challenges you're facing? But let me just say that I'm glad that majority wise it's good. That's what we want.
Right. Yeah, it is. I would say in retrospect, this is the challenge. Like, I have one little boy who, his mom, who's a very devoted homeschool mom, we spoke about this, and she, we decided that even though he could have maybe, you know, started in level one, but we decided to keep him in foundation just because he was having a few little issues there that the baseline revealed.
And we thought, why rush it? You know, let's just really prepare him foundationally. And I still think, well, maybe he could have started in level one in retrospect. And so determining if that, that little issue right there, like determining if someone's really on the fence when we should go in which direction, that maybe to me, I'm still thinking about that, even though we're already rolling with all the students.
So we're not going to switch anything we're doing, but for next year, for a new student, do you have any suggestions about that?
Yeah. No. I mean, I completely understand. We honestly still will finish the placement, and some other assessments. And we do have a lot of students who kind of fall like an in between. I actually have a student right now that there were some things that he really need to work on in level one before we could move on to level two.
So but rather than go through all of level one, I really focused on those patterns that were really tricky for him in level one. So for example, he had a few digraphs that he needed to work on, not every single digraph, but some of them. His initial blends were beautiful. It was those final blends that he was struggling on. And then the welded sounds, the ink, the ankh, ang, right, all those. So we're gonna get we're going through and we're really cementing those patterns along with some lock words that I really wanted him to cover in level one.
And I'm even doing some of the decodable practice with him. So we have the mini booklets. So we we finished CH and SH, the the lesson, but I wanted him to have a little bit more practice. So we went through and we did the decodables too, and he could take that home for extra practice.
He's one of my hybrid students, so I'll see him on Mondays online.
And then Wednesdays I see him in clinic. So he's getting practice both on the computer and with the paper copy with me. And so we're able to do a lot of the writing, the highlighting, just a little bit of everything in both formats, and it's going really well. Now I will definitely want to give him the level one final before I move on to level two.
K. Even though already that baseline had said that a good majority of level one he already had covered. But before I move on to level two, I just wanna see data wise where we at. Do we have the same growth that I'm kinda seeing in our one to one sessions?
And if so, then, yeah, we'll start right in level two and begin right at the beginning there and work our way through the entire level two system, which he's a second grader so that would be on level for him. So that'd be great and he is being homeschooled this year so this is helping him stay current. He will be going back to school next year, so that's the plan. So my goal is really let's catch him up on level one that he's missing, then get him into level two, work through that whole pathway with him.
And then at the end, let's see we've done the baseline, midpoint. Are we always in kind of that upward trajectory? Do we need to do extra practice? Does he just need Do I need to send home maybe some more homework with him so he and mom can practice together because mom is his homeschool teacher?
So that's really one of the approaches we take is if you do need to hit some of those, like you said, foundational skills, definitely don't don't be afraid to hit those. But, also, don't feel like you necessarily have to hit every single one if you feel very confident that my student okay. They've got this this pattern.
Right.
We can skip this one and go on to the next the next one. So Right. Yeah. But it's it's a journey, and you honestly know your student best. And you know there is kind of that gut feeling of if we had started on level one versus foundations, would my student be struggling a little bit more just because we haven't covered those basics or even just refresh them, right? Sometimes kids just need that refresher, but it's never going to hurt them.
Right, of course not.
Yeah, right. So that practice, it's never going to hurt them. They do get to learn the structure.
Yes. And I think that that's extremely valuable.
Yeah. I mean, we call it structured literacy for a reason because when we teach this, it just has to be a structure that kids understand so that when they go to apply it to their own reading, their own writing, they're remembering the structure they use with us.
The very predictable pattern of the lessons just kind of also like helps to minimize that cognitive load for them because it's not like they're, oh, like, what are we going to be doing today? And it just and it just gives them a comfort level as well.
So, yes.
Yeah, yes. And I will say, too, like when you have the students who are, like you said, like comfortable and they again, you're taking that cognitive load off because they they know what's happening next. That's when you can also add in games and you can add in extra practice.
Right, yes.
Yeah, so that way students are like, you can get that practice in there, but you're there's always a forward motion in there instead of feeling like, okay, I'm just grabbing from all over the place and putting all this stuff together. My kid's like, I don't know what's happening, but I guess I'll just do what you're telling me to.
Right. Exactly.
Even as an educator, I felt that, I need the structure too, to stay focused.
Yeah. Right. Absolutely. It helps. It helps. And it just makes everything flow so much better.
It also releases our cognitive load so that we can manage and focus and determine things better as well. So much. I also started using the secondary curriculum. Yeah, I have two students that I'm using the secondary curriculum with.
And one of them was a student who was at this micro school last year. Okay. But the parents moved to South they are from South America. And they but the girl has been the student, Sammy, she's in sixth grade.
She's, I think, been here all her twelve years of life, mainly except, you know, for traveling, maybe perhaps for vacation to visit family in South America. But they decided to start a ministry in South America feeds disadvantaged communities. Wow. And yeah, yeah, it's really it's beautiful.
And so they came to me at the end of the last school year. And at the microschool, my friend who runs it, she does a standardized test that some of the homeschoolers here still need to do, depending on what kind of homeschooling student you are. I won't get too into it, bogged down with the details. But some of them have to have a formal evaluation.
And so she does the Iowa. And the Iowa was very challenging for Sammy. And so the parents reached out to me. So anyhow, long story short, I'm serving her while she's in Columbia now.
They're gonna, I don't know how long they'll be there. So it's really nice to be able to offer her that. But so I'm using secondary with her and with another student named Samantha. And I love the secondary because it really, it really serves a need with what it offers and it offers so much.
I'm so happy to hear that you're using it. So what is next for you Rosemary?
That's a really good question. Well what I'd like to do is I have a few students where I want to be able to give them a program that's going to include some DSI where they need it and then other therapeutic interventions as well and being able to put that all together for them.
That's awesome. So yeah, and I hope always, you know, our goal is to always be evolving our instruction, our practices to meet kids with what they need and where they're at. And so I love that that sounds great and that sounds very interesting, honestly. So we would love to know how that goes too. So always keep us informed. And then Rosemarie, one of my last questions here for you is what is one piece of advice you would give others working in the literacy space right now?
I would say so just be really committed to what we know works and something from like Delivering Smarter Intervention is completely one hundred percent based on the science of reading and what the most prominent organization, you know, in reading intervention, I would say to be committed to what you know is the best route for your kiddos.
Yeah. Thank you.
That I think is great advice to remember. So thank you so much, Rosemary. And is there a place that you, like if we had our listeners who wanted to contact you or maybe just get in touch and everything that we could share in our show notes?
Sure. I have a humble little website that I created on my own and is unlockthepotential dot net. So that's the name of my, my business is Unlock the Potential.
Wonderful. And thank you again for our listeners. We want you to take a minute and reflect on does any of Rosemary's experience resonate with where you are right now? And if so, what's one thing you can do or one message you can hold on to based on this conversation?
If you are in our professional learning community, drop a comment in the group, let us know. And if not, send us message on Instagram to let us know. And again, Rosemary, thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience, your knowledge. We are so grateful and we just, we love working and talking with you.
Yes, and I'm so grateful for all of you because you have an amazing team that's always there to help out. So I'm very grateful and it's really been enjoyable talking with you about one of my favorite subjects.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Smarter Literacy Podcast. Make sure to subscribe for more strategies and insights to make delivering effective literacy instruction easy or at least easier. And if you found this episode helpful, share it with a friend or leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. It really does help others find the show, and we are beyond grateful for your support. Thanks for listening. Until next time. Happy teaching.
